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lil89ram50
11-06-2010, 11:58 PM
hey guys, im new here. i do not have a grand national, or a turboed 3.8 liter. but i do have a mazda b series. and i am looking for some help. i just got this truck and it has a 3.8 l buick in it. i looked around and found a couple things. like mi dizzy is like the even fire as shown here, http://members.toast.net/rbuchholz/heiexp.html as opposed to the odd fires.
and i looked here.... http://www.earlycj5.com/technical/engines/dauntless-225-v6buick-231-oddfire/buick-v6-casting-numbers-internal-specs-for-most-years-and-notes/ and found that.

and then, shockingly i ran upon this http:
//www.earlycj5.com/technical/engines/dauntless-225-v6buick-231-oddfire/ (http://www.earlycj5.com/technical/engines/dauntless-225-v6buick-231-oddfire/) mainly this section of it.

QUOTE "The way to find out exactly what kind of engine you have is to look up the serial number cast on the engine block near where the bell housing bolts to the engine on the top, you might be able to see it looking down the firewall of the engine compartment to the top rear of the engine. The valve covers style make the engine look like a 1976 or later Buick V6. The Buick V6 changed from odd-fire to even-fire in mid-year 1977. You might have the very latest odd-fire that had the external appearance of an even-fire engine. The 1976-1977 odd-fires are the strongest Buick V6s ever made, stronger connecting rods, single piece cams, large wrist pins.

When ever in the junk yard and you find a Buick V6 with an odd-fire HEI check out that engine it might be the last and greatest odd-fire of them all If it has freeze plugs in the heads it might be a super duper 1976 odd-fire. These odd-fires have a very strong bottom end because the odd-fire crank combined with stronger Oldsmobile V8 style connecting rods. The oil stick even enters the block like an even-fire everything looks even fire until you see the casting on the drivers side under casting says “76″ on the block, you must pull the oil pan, see the odd-fire crank shaft. This was the transition series of engines. QUOTE

so i checked the heads, and there is freeze plugs in the back of them, and maybe in the front of them, idk stuff is in the way. i couldnt find the "76" stamp they were refering to though..... could this be that rarer motor?

Keller
11-07-2010, 12:26 AM
Try some of this info:

http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/blocks/blockguide.html

The 225 predates the 3.8 / 231 by a LOT. See if the info above is a little closer to the proper decade(s).

lil89ram50
11-07-2010, 12:46 AM
ive already looked at all that. i counted the bolts on the pan, and theres 14 of them. any thing else to look for? what exactly should i be lookking for? the guy i got this truck from said this has 500 miles on it, and he just had it rebuilt at a shop. but he doesnt have the paper work. it is vere clean on the inside, outside, not so clean

kenmosher
11-07-2010, 09:56 AM
The casting number on the block (as shown in the intro to the block guide) will give you specific information. That's what you need. Look it up here:
http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html

However, if the distributor is even fire, then it definitely IS even fire, regardless of whatever other parts are on there. There's not way to mix and match distributor, crank and cam between even/odd fire (and have it run, that is).

You probably have a garden variety early 80s 3.8 (which isn't a BAD thing, by any means). All the blah blah about the 76 motor being super bad ass, is pretty much irrelevant. The cranks and rods OBVIOUSLY work just fine in the even fire motors (witness lots of folks making 700 HP+ on stock rolled fillet cranks and people taking the non-filleted cranks well north of 400 HP). It basically is another example of a "transition" motor ... they were switching over to the even fire blocks and such (like the late 85 hot air motors with the 20 bolt oil pans that still have open valley castings)

As far as the heads ... all Buick V6 heads have a plug in the end faces, and my guess is you have the pretty common 25506293 casting heads from the early 80s. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/heads/8081heads.html

lil89ram50
11-08-2010, 09:16 AM
wow guys, i just re read my first post, and i for got to say i had the block casting. its 25506397. but that chart doesnt really tell me much. other than thats its inbetween an 82 an 83.

so guys, i guess the huge question is, is this an even fire motor? and the answer i got from you was, YES! is there any thing odd about my motor i have said, or is it all pretty much normal? these heads do belong on here right? and are there any other heads that are better? i am going to get the edelbrock intake. its a performer, and a 500cfm 4 barrel carb. is this a good setup, or do i need more carb? this is a little motor, so i think it should be plenty, especially cuz im NA. will this wake this motor up at all?

im also having problems with it driving. when i shift it into drive or reverse, something drags it down and kills it. i heard these 250 tranys have a lock up torque convertor. but some times if i keep one foor on the gas, and one on the brake, i can keep it going. but not normally. what should i look for? im a newb to this kinda stuff. im more into nissans and stuff, this is my first buick

kenmosher
11-08-2010, 10:11 AM
Anything in the 80s is even fire .. has to be, as long as somebody didn't do some sort of strange "roll their own" in rebuilding it.

It sounds like a common early 80s V6. The 25508445 casting heads (from the mid-late 80s) are a little better with low lift flow and have bridged end water passages, so a little stronger decks.

However, again, for what you're doing, what you have can be worked with ... port the heads, good cam, maybe a little more compression (thinner head gaskets), etc. ... typical hot rodding tricks and it will respond fine. Just don't expect the typical parking lot bragging "500 HP". An aggressive build will get you ~300HP, but realistically a nice streetable 3.8 in the 225-250 HP range is achievable. Add a blower (like a nice little Eaton or a centrifugal Vortec or something) and you can be in the mid 300s and very streetable.

All comes down to $$$ and time (like any project). Oh, and at the level you are at, the 500 carb is plenty.

The trans problem is probably the TCC solenoid is stuck on in the trans. See the transmission section for lots of discussion and the swap out procedure is on the web site.

lil89ram50
11-08-2010, 07:15 PM
Anything in the 80s is even fire .. has to be, as long as somebody didn't do some sort of strange "roll their own" in rebuilding it.

It sounds like a common early 80s V6. The 25508445 casting heads (from the mid-late 80s) are a little better with low lift flow and have bridged end water passages, so a little stronger decks.

However, again, for what you're doing, what you have can be worked with ... port the heads, good cam, maybe a little more compression (thinner head gaskets), etc. ... typical hot rodding tricks and it will respond fine. Just don't expect the typical parking lot bragging "500 HP". An aggressive build will get you ~300HP, but realistically a nice streetable 3.8 in the 225-250 HP range is achievable. Add a blower (like a nice little Eaton or a centrifugal Vortec or something) and you can be in the mid 300s and very streetable.

All comes down to $$$ and time (like any project). Oh, and at the level you are at, the 500 carb is plenty.

The trans problem is probably the TCC solenoid is stuck on in the trans. See the transmission section for lots of discussion and the swap out procedure is on the web site.

hanks man, and yea i waas talking to a few mechanic shops today, and they all said the same about the selenoid in the trans! thanks a lot man