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GranRegal85
06-18-2005, 09:06 PM
Hey guys.
I "Searched" all of the forums and got a ton of useful information but still have some unanswered questions..
I have a 1984 Regal Limited with a 3.8 V6 and a 3 speed auto tranny (no overdrive).
I obtained a complete 1985 Buick Grand national, Motor, turbo, tranny, wiring harness and computer. I plan on swapping out my 1984's drivetrain (when the motor starts knocking) for the 1985 GN's.
All of the turbo swaps I've read about is using stock fuel lines, and adding Hi-pressure fuel pump and GN tank, and welding a new cross member for the tranny.
I guess my questions are..

1. I plan on running a fuel cell in the trunk with a sump, an in-line high pressure fuel pump, filter, and AN lines to the motor.

Will this screw up my emmissions? I am in NY so, it has to run the standing idle test or maybe a Dyno test at 50mph.

2. Since my car came with the 3.8 liter V6, is the correct crossmember already in the car? If not, are there aftermarket cross-members available? I plan on running single 3" exhaust dumping on the right rear tire before the axle.

3. Will I run into Wiring harness/ECM problems using the stock 1985 engine harness and computer and reusing my 1984 body harness/other harnesses? Or should I start looking into an aftermarket custom GN engine harness?

This will be a daily driver but I want it to be fun, so I'm tearing down the motor and freshening it up, converting it to 1987 ECM and coil, putting a chip in it,tuning with a laptop, free flow exhaust, intake and maybe some head work.
Anyone have any recommendations for best bang for the buck on a Hot air setup? I'd like to run low 13's all day, maybe dipping into the 12's..I think that's being pretty realistic compared to some of the hot-air recipes I've seen..

Any other info would be greatly appreciated..
Thanx in advance!!!
L8r

GranRegal85
06-18-2005, 09:11 PM
Here is some more info on my conversion/drivetrain swap.

The suspension has been rebuilt, so has the brakes, and finally got a set of tires big enough to take up some of the gearing.
I'm running a 3.73 posi rear, with 275-60r15's on stock 87 GN rims, and 225-60r15's on same rims..
The stance is pretty bad ass..

I have most of the parts needed for the swap and also upgrades already.
Here is a list of parts that I have ready for the swap, and upgrade.
A complete 1985 Hot-air GN motor, with Harness and computer.
A complete 200R4 overdrive tranny with converter from 1985 GN Charcoal canister, relays, fan shroud, stock exhaust with y-pipe and cat. converter.

Also on order a Full rebuild kit from Summit racing, Not changing pistons, just new rings, bearings, seals and gaskets.
A new set of ARP head bolts (because stock ones arent reusable?)
a 1987 GN ECM unmodified
a ceramic coated pair of 1985 exhaust manifolds,cracks already welded, with cross over pipe.
1987 Ignition coil..( I will order the casper conversion harness)
a camaro alum. radiator, electric fans with the '87 relay wiring.
A shift kit and a higher stall converter, probably 3000rpm+ because of the 3.73 gearing..
and a B&M rachet shifter instead of the column (3 speed) shifter.


With all of that being said.
So here come the questions..

I want to run a fuel cell. Unless someone has a GN fuel tank for sale that is somewhat local.
Is there anyone running a fuel cell in their GN?
What size steel braided AN lines do I have to run along the frame?
Any fuel pump recommendations for use with AN lines?
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, what kind?

I will be running wiring for the fuel pump hooked up to a switch instead of keyed ignition, any problem with this?

I have a laptop ready for the turbolink or direct scan programs.
Just need to get the programs, and adapter..

Am I missing anything??

And NYS said that it will have to run on the Dyno for emmissions.
Will it pass if I have a fuel cell in the trunk or anything else swapped?

I spoke with Summit Racing, and they said I could install a 16 gallon fuel cell with the sending unit, and foam, with AN lines to a Fram fuel filter, Accell In-line high pressure fuel pump, and an Accell High pressure fuel regulator.
This setup sems to be quite a bit cheaper than going with a stock replacement, except if I can find one used..

I also plan on removing the AC because it doesnt work, and will give me more room to work.
Any issues with this?
Do I need an AC deleted pulley?

Also, when I rebuild the engine, should I opt for a high pressure oil pump or is stock replacement fine?

I hope to acheive low 13's with this car, and with the gearing and the 1987 ECM conversion and chip options I think it might be pretty realistic.

I'd like to keep this hot air, but an open to an intercooler install as well..

Any info would be greatly appreciated..

Keller
06-19-2005, 02:45 PM
I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to pass emissions.

As far as the fuel cell idea, it should work OK. The stock injector rail has a fuel pressure regulator on it. Why do you need another one? Perhaps an aftermarket adjustable one in its place, but I'd worry about cobbling this mess together and getting it running, first.

The original TR had an 8.5" rear end and your car likely has a 7.5" rear end. Not as strong. Plus the driveshaft is a different length. This may be a problem.

The crossmember for the 200-4R transmission is different, and there is a different set of holes on the frame for it. The frame mods should not be a big deal. The crossmember may be available from one of the people parting out cars in our "Parts For Sale" section.

I recall the 84/85 turbo cars using a different heater core and lines, as well as a heat shield on the hood over the turbo. Some things to think about.

AC removal shouldn't be an issue. The 84/85 cars have muliple belts; one for each component.

Don't bother with a high pressure oil pump. And don't rebuild the motor if it doesn't need it.

GranRegal85
06-19-2005, 04:44 PM
Thanksfor the reply, I greatly appreciate it.

As far as the fuel regulator. I didnt know that there was one on the fuel rail
is it possible to disconnect or remove that one?
I was going to use an adjustable one for tuning purposes and to prevent detonation.

With the rear end. I'm not to worried about breaking it. If it breaks then I can switch it for a bolt-in Ford 9" and never have to worry about breaking that.
But obviously something to think about..

The tranny crossmember can be bought after market if need be for around $200 or so. Otherwise a used x-member will do fine as well.
Also, I read somewhere that the 1984 Regals have the bolt holes on the frame for use with the 200r4 x-member. 1983 and earlier do not, and you'd have to weld something up.
So, I'll have to verify that the holes, or welded nuts are there and judge accordingly.

Heater core...hmmm. I didnt know that one. I do have the turbo heat shield that wraps around the heater core box. It was included in my purchase.
Maybe I'll switch out the heater core box to one that doesnt have AC for more clearance, since the AC will be removed anyway. That should definitely help.

I'll avoid using the high pressure oil pump. Great, it saves me a few bucks :D
And as far as the condition of the engine.
I dont know the condition of the motor/tranny. Let me rephrase that, I dont TRUST the condition of the motor. I'd rather rebuild it with new parts or at least tear it down to the short block to see what I'm dealing with.
I dont know how it runs or if it even runs, everything is complete though.
I was thinking about just rebuilding the top have dependng on how the short block looked.
I've rebuilt several small block chevy motors before, so I have an idea whats involved as far as costs, and work that might be needed.

Any additional tips?
Thanks for the comments.

Keller
06-20-2005, 12:27 AM
Why not replace the fuel regulator with an adjustable one? Available from any TR aftermarket vendor.

Remember - this isn't a Chevy. Tollerances and gaps will all be different. In this case, tighter. What is considered OK on a Chevy motor may be considered "time for a rebuild" on a Buick motor.

I'd suggest you do a lot of reading and research before you start spinning wrenches...

GranRegal85
06-20-2005, 11:29 PM
Definitely a good idea about replacing the regulator with an adjustable TR specific one. For some reason I thought that it was a universal in-line type that was required.

As far as the clearances are concerned..I'll be doing a lot of reading before I even think about touching this motor.
I'm hoping to just pull the intake and heads just to replace the headgaskets (to play it safe) and take a look at the bottom end.
Im hoping that I dont need to replace the rings, and bearings..I'll have the rebuild kit in the event that I need to but Im trying to avoid it, without half-assing the rebuild.

Thanks again for the the info and potential issues I might run into.
This site has been a wealth of information.. :cheers:

novaderrik
06-27-2005, 02:56 AM
the fuel cell MIGHT be an issue- i know here in MN it's illegal to modify the fuel tank in any way- there is even a box on the title you check that indicates that the "pollution control system- including the restricted gasoline pipe" has not been modified.
but then we don't have inspections or emissions tests here, because when they tried it in the minneapolis/St Paul metro area a few years ago, the state discovered that most new cars (as in brand new off the dealer lots) don't pass the sniffer tests anyways, the air wasn't getting any cleaner, and a lot pf people were a little angry at the wasted $$$ and time trying in vain to get their vehicles in compliance. they got rid of the tests, and the air quality is getting better, and no $$$ are wasted on stupid tests that accomplish nothing.
but that's a whole nuther topic, i guess..