pulling the motor

[gngirl]

I need to know if I can drop the oil pan and crankshaft without pulling the motor? any have a clue? Alisa :confused: :confused:

[jhef83]

I suppose it could be done. Getting it out would be the easy part,getting it back in :banghead: Work smart not hard,Pull the motor! What happened anyway? You got some noise down there? :)

[edmackenzie]

you could drop the pan and drop the crank, but you'd have to pull the transmission, you're better off pulling the engine, not that big of a deal, looks scary, but not bad at all.. did mine 4 times in the last 3 years :crackup:

[Keller]

Pan is no problem. Just had mine off to do a rear main seal. But I'd be a bit leery of doing serious bottom end work (like dropping the crank) with it in. There isn't much room to work down there. And it would be hard to keep things clean. Probably better (and safer) to pull, overall.

[Scott231]

I need to know if I can drop the oil pan and crankshaft without pulling the motor? any have a clue? Alisa :confused: :confused:
In order to pull the crank, you have to undo the flexplate bolts...which means the torque converter has to come off...which the transmission has to come out...which means the driveshaft has to come out. Then there is the front of the motor - you have to remove the timing chain...which means you have to remove the timing chain cover (do the cam sensor first!)...which means you have to remove the water pump and to get that off you prolly want to remove the intercooler.

So the extra work involved in pulling the motor is to remove the A) wiring harness, B) water/heater lines, C) oil cooler lines, D) fuel lines and E) motor mounts...But, you can leave the trans in the car. :D

[turbogn86]

take the time u think it will take when u consider all that is ganna be done, an multiply it times 2, beacuse nothing ever goes like its supposed too... trust me mine still is "almost" in after a month or 2. including motor rebuild time.

[gngirl]

take the time u think it will take when u consider all that is ganna be done, an multiply it times 2, beacuse nothing ever goes like its supposed too....


GREAT advice! :crackup:
We have the car "almost running good" - 2 months later.

[gngirl]

Detonation kills!!!

Took the engine out and found the problem among many other miscellaneous issues.
Besides the fact that the previous backyard mechanic did not install exhaust gaskets, a few of the bolts on the intake were not very tight.

The head on the passenger side was removed and cylinder number 4 is shot.
The top land of the piston is gone, melted all the way down to the ring (about 75% of it has been disintegrated!). Rings seem ok (Mood point at this stage in the game)

The metal head gasket was also burned (0.375” gap) and was leaking into the motor (below the intake manifold). The block is scrap - There is about a 0.050 in deep groove burned into the head sealing surface of the block. Maybe it could be refaced but it is hard to say. Re-facing looks like it may just “barely” be higher then the top of the piston at TDC. We have a picture if anyone is interested.

So, here is the short story: The difference in the compression of the cylinder did not warrant a broken ring as suspected all along, and, we need another block. Anyone has a short block for an 84 GN “laying around” and want to help a gal out in Houston, TX? (YES, we will look at the “parts for sale” postings :cuss: )

[Keller]

Detonation kills!!!

Truer words never spoken!

Incidentally, I don't believe gaskets are used between the heads and exhaust manifolds. (They certainly weren't on 86/87 cars.) So if this is the area you were speaking about, this may be one less crime to accuse the previous owner of.

Rough outcome. But if you build it up right, you can make it really nice! Bring some learning to all the Hot Air folks out there (and learn from them) along the way.

[1985WH1]

Scott is correct on this as well, 84-85 cars did not have gaskets there either

[gngirl]

Scott is correct on this as well, 84-85 cars did not have gaskets there either

Funny :crackup: . Each dealer we talk to has gaskets for the 84-85.
Thought we read somewhere that we should be sure to get the HP exhaust gaskets from Felpro (??)

Scott,
We plan to keep the car basically stock and have learned "A LOT" from this great community and "friends". We can not express our appreciation enough. (How the heck did people restore cars before computers???)

We hope to be able to lend a helping hand (in spirit or on their car) to someone else in the future.

It is going to be nice when the car runs right and not leak any oil, engine clean and detailed, etc etc. Looks like we may be a few weeks away. The goal is to break the motor in before TG.

Thanks everyone!

[Keller]

Each dealer we talk to has gaskets for the 84-85.

My comment was about the exhaust headers having NO gaskets, which they are not supposed to. Might as well get your headers cured of cracks while they are off, by the way...

TG? :confused:

[gngirl]

Might as well get your headers cured of cracks while they are off, by the way...
TG? :confused:

Thanks.
We will do some non-destructive testing on them ........ They were already welded once.

[1985WH1]

Thanks.
We will do some non-destructive testing on them ........ They were already welded once.

Don't be suprised if you have to weld them up again, keep an eye on the passenger side one as they like to crack alot, I'm getting ready to weld up my spare and throw it on my car

[gngirl]

Don't be suprised if you have to weld them up again, keep an eye on the passenger side one as they like to crack alot, I'm getting ready to weld up my spare and throw it on my car


Does anyone know why they crack so much?
Has anyone tried welding an extra piece of metal in the area where they crack to keep them from cracking?

[jhef83]

Lotsa heat would be my guess. They like to warp too,my passenger side was leaking on both ends. Just had both resurfaced and crack welded. Mine had been brazed once, I had it mig welded this time. ;)

[orions gn]

They crack due to heating and cooling and stress. They are cast iron so to get the most out of your welds it should be done with about 400 f preheat and nickel type rod for best results and let them cool slow otherwise they will crack again. Have done this to many manifolds and seems to work well.

[Keller]

They are cast iron

Not on any 84-87 car I've seen. They are all tubular throughout the system.

[gngirl]

Not on any 84-87 car I've seen. They are all tubular throughout the system.

The headers are tubular and the flange looks like it is flame cut.

The drivers side header had MULTIPLE cracks! Passenger side looked fine.
While the headers were welded previously, the weld had no penetration (Cold welds) Had them TIG welded and look GREAT now.

One down, many to go. :cheers:

[gngirl]

They crack due to heating and cooling and stress. They are cast iron so to get the most out of your welds it should be done with about 400 f preheat and nickel type rod for best results and let them cool slow otherwise they will crack again. Have done this to many manifolds and seems to work well.
PS:
Looking at the thickness of the headers, looks the the cracking is primarily the result of some vibration. Heat does not help, but it is not the main cause as the position they crak does not make sense. The resonance of the vibration must be in the right frequency for the drivers side headers, which is why the passenger side cracks less often.

Does this make sense?

[orions gn]

Yes the 84-87 are tube and I should have looked at the set I have. Tig welding is the way to go and that usually will take care of the cracking. I have an extra set of 84-85 headers and cross over I would be willing to let go and 86-87 block also.