BRF 200-4R shift kits and rebuilding opinions!

[BASSr]

Well I am thinking about trying to rebuild the BRF 200-4R that came with my '87 T-Type. Two reasons are:

1. $$$
2. $$$

And probably the next is because I want to try to do it!

I saw a video on eBay and will start there, but want some feedback on:

- shift kits such as the B & M Transpack and one made by Transgo.
- rebuild kits, what they normally include and what I should watch out for? What are good brand parts in the kits?

I already read the tech page on this but would really appreciate some members feedback on how they have approached a rebuild, tips/tricks, and what results they got. My car is a street car, not for racing. I want the tranny to be basically stock but with a little more crisp shifts and for it to last FOREVER! :tup:

OK, now let me have it! :2c:

Bruce

[PaCemkr86]

dont use the B&M shift kit.. i ve hear people have excellent results with the trans-go kit

[BASSr]

PaCeMaker, Thanks for the update. Do you happen to know what these successful uses of the Transgo where for (racing or street)?



I read through Andy Lehoskay's 200-4R rebuild article and it does not seem to answer some of my questions such as:



- what parts should I look for in a rebuild kit? (specific items and manufacturers)

- other items such as servo, TV boost valve & sleeve, low/reverse valve & sleeve, and any other items which might not be included in the "standard" rebuild kit?

Bruce

[PaCemkr86]

for all my trans concerns i contact
Bruce at PTS Extrme automatics

http://www.ptsxtreme.com/

[PaCemkr86]

you can also purchase a totally built 2004R from Brian , he builds awesome
trans with excellent customer service

Brian Hofer

hipsibri@cs.com

He has build over 30 trans this year alone, and every customer has been totaly satisfied

His units come complete and ready to run, deep pan, transbrakes, etc...

[ed39]

i did the servo upgrade on my 87 cutlass really made gear shifts from one to two and two to three realy frim. i was able to bark first goin in to second maybe a little to firm for a turbo buick

[Keller]

FWIW, I did the B&M kit on my original trans. It worked OK, but then I started to have enough acceleration that the limits of the filter and such were being exposed. (i.e. filter not sealed well, sucking air on hard launches when trans not 'over filled') Its an OK kit for a mild car, but nothing over a high-12 car, perhaps.

No 200-4Rs are 'new' anymore. Even a low mile car has old seals in it by now.

[Keller]

maybe a little to (sic) firm for a turbo buick
Is there such a thing? :loll:

[pontiac6269]

I personally would go with a Trans-Go shift kit, they are more complete then other kits that just have a seperater plate and a drill bit. Come with different springs and shift valves, instruction booklet and a video. Cost about $130 from Summit. I installed one of these in the 4L60E in my 96 Caprice and it works great even with 180,000 miles on it. Look up there website they have a bunch of information on it.

[kenmosher]

I've had nothing but problems with the TransGo ... it tends to hang on the 2 to 3 shift (handing over from the band/drum to the clutches). All the springs, valves, etc. that they have screws up the timing, IMHO (with a stock type converter).

The B&M (Fairbanks, etc.) all do an uprated pressure regulator valve, change the accumulators (either shim them or block them), seperator plate, and a couple other check ball mods (depending on the level you choose). They are simple and work pretty well until mid11s or so.

At that point though, you need more than just the shift kit anyway... it's time to look for uprated clutches, band, new drum/input shaft, etc.

[PaCemkr86]

you can always call a GN specific trans builder and see what he recomends for a shift kit.

Thats what i did

http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RSHIFTKITSVALVEBODIESGOVERNORS.html

[mark ace]

b&m would be my last choice! ive used several transgo kits over the years with great results, and this being your first trans try superior, their kits are easy to install, with great results.

[kenmosher]

Guess what the Superior is very similar to? :shiny:

Almost all the same components and the same basic mods to the separator plate ...

I've done Superior, B&M, Fairbanks, TransGo, TCI kits ... all very similar.

The TransGo is a lot different ... MANY valving changes, springs, etc. Their basic kit is OK (but I didn't notice any significant improvement, other than it really BANGED 1-2 gear with the stock converter). I think the TransGo super race kit was the one that really soured my opinion though .. it ruined my valve body (involved drilling new holes in the VALVE BODY).

After several fruitless attempts on the phone with Younger (who actually was very supportive, even if we couldn't get it to work), I ended up with a fully manual VB that slipped in 3rd gear. Needless to say, that was the end of that.

BTW, this was with a very good race trans builder who was doing a "fresh up" for me and was highly recommending this kit. He'd done it on PGs and 400s, but obviously something wasn't right with the 2004R version.

[Overboost]

I have a transgo stage 2 kit in my trans and it works wonderful. my problems were rooted to my governor and converter. my trans came from a caddy (being that some un-named previous owner removed my stock trans before I bought it, stuffed a TH400 in it and it ran like yesterdays lunch:bslap:) it is much better now. the valve body has been modified from the caddy specs to GN stage 2 specs (all the same VB, just internals that have changed) now it burns the tires from a 20 roll, and I have 275 MT drag radials....

[BASSr]

Okay, thanks for all the opinions! Not sure if I am more confused :shock: or have more info than I need. My motor is basically stock (other than the basic fuel pressure regulator and adjustable waste gate) and I will NOT be racing this at all! Sounds like the Transgo will be a firmer 1-2 gear shift than I want. I don't want it to be annoying under normal driving, just firmer shifts than stock for both 1-2 & 2-3 shifts. I think I said somewhere that I had the 200-4R in my '87 MC redone by a shop and they did a very nice job, but the 1-2 shifts were just a little more firm than I would have liked for everyday driving.

Also sounds like I want to the servo upgrade, but want to understand if the servo in the GN trans is better than the servo in the Cutlass (Ed39?)?

Seems like Ken is a B&M fan. Does the B&M shift kit give me firm 1-2 & 2-3 shifts but not too much?

Can the B&M kit plus the servo upgrade give me what I am looking for?

Now back to the rebuild kits! What do I need to do a good rebuild? I see a "Master" rebuild kit on eBay (auction number 320066328976). Any opinions on this?

Bruce

[PaCemkr86]

this is the kit i got off ebay.. and it came with eveything i needed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/200-4R-2004R-HP-TRANSMISSION-MASTER-REBUILD-KIT-ALTO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ019QQite mZ7999898285



for what its worth.. I have the B&M shift kit in my 86 GN thats a daily driver and it works just fine.. Nice firm shift when you acclerate hard.

[BASSr]

this is the kit i got off ebay.. and it came with eveything i needed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/200-4R-2004R-HP-TRANSMISSION-MASTER-REBUILD-KIT-ALTO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ019QQite mZ7999898285



for what its worth.. I have the B&M shift kit in my 86 GN thats a daily driver and it works just fine.. Nice firm shift when you acclerate hard.
Okay, I looked at both the auction you snet me and the one I was looking at. They both cotain the same components:

This is the list in the auction I was looking at for $99.95:

RAYBESTOS Clutches and new steels. This kit contains the TOLEDO TRANS-KIT, that contains all the gaskets, seals, o-rings and sealing rings to complete your rebuild. The kit comes with a new filter, pump bushing and extension housing bushing. Also included is a new band that should always be replaced during a rebuild.

The auction you sent me listed the following for $245.99:

This kit contains all Alto Red Eagle clutches and Kolene Steel plates. Also included is a Kevlar band, Transtec soft parts kit with every rubber seal and gasket that you'll need to complete your rebuild. The kit comes with a new filter, pump bushing and extension housing bushing.

Now what I don't know is the quality of the clutches, steel plates, band, and softw parts/gaskets. They both make reference to being quality parts for high performance rebuilds.

If the prices were closer there would not be an issue, but since the one is quite a bit more then I want to make sure I get the best rebuild kit for the least amount of $$$, not just pay more an assume so!

Bruce

[PaCemkr86]

Right on..

[BASSr]

Right on..
So you think the rebuild kit for $99 is as good as the $245 one? I don't know much about these brands!

[PaCemkr86]

yes.. id use it

[Keller]

Not a trans guru. However, FWIW, I have heard that the Alto Red pieces and Kolene steels are both excellent pieces. Probably where the cost difference is coming from.

I do think the B&M kit is adequate for a mild car if you just want to firm things up a bit. Search the archives via the website. (not this forum) i.e. http://www.ajlc.waterloo.on.ca/gnsearch.html

[BASSr]

What's the deal with the servo's? Is the GN one good for a nice crisp shift for a street car? I have seen some around that are advertised as "Super Sized" and 17% more apply area than the GN's. How does this play into the overall performance?


Bruce

[BASSr]

What's the deal with the servo's? Is the GN one good for a nice crisp shift for a street car? I have seen some around that are advertised as "Super Sized" and 17% more apply area than the GN's. How does this play into the overall performance?


Bruce
No one have any comments for me on servo's? Don't dissappointment me. I rely on your feedback to get me through this stuff! :nilly:

[PaCemkr86]

i bought one and installed it. Not sure if it worked better then the one i had, but it looked cool, and i knew it was in there..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004R-SUPERIOR-FAIRBANKS-INTERMEDIATE-SUPER-SERVO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ019QQit emZ8075007287QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[Keller]

Notice in that link that the TR stock servo has the best rating of all the stock ones. However, the Fairbanks unit is still an improvement.

[BASSr]

Notice in that link that the TR stock servo has the best rating of all the stock ones. However, the Fairbanks unit is still an improvement.

Okay guys, here is another of my broad questions!

I have all my stuff to do the rebuild (video from Technical Videos, ATSG rebuild manual for the 200-4R, Master Rebuild Kit, etc.). This gives me a good base to start from on how to take it apart and put it back together, but what about evaluating parts that have wear on them such as the servo, accumulator plates, and such? I can only assume that this comes from experience which is what I do not have? I also noticed in the rebuild manual and video that there are several tools that are mentioned as being used (pullers, etc.) and a list of "required special tools". Can you get this done without all of these tools or will there be certain things you can NOT do with out them?

Bruce

[mark ace]

the servo with 17% more holding is fine... basically it does what it says, the band will have less chance to slip!

most of the tools, can be gotten by without, with a little bit of "creativity" the biggest thing you need to do is compress the clutch pack return springs. if you have a small shop press you can do it, or some really strong! thumbs! their is a tool to remove the center support, & about 50% of the time you can get by without it.
good luck!